Curse

LouAl · Apr 07, 2006, 12:07 AM // 00:07

I thought I had a cool idea the other day. I took out my 55 monk and slpped GB on him and then went out to fight some stuff.

My thought's were that since I would almost always have less health I would be doing huge damage to a single foe for only 10e every 10 seconds, but it doesn't work like that.

I am not sure how the calculations work for this spell, but it does not cause 250 damage to an enemy just because you have 55 max health.

It may be that it will max out your health and then take from them taht same amount - if I had 40 and they had 480 I could only gain 15 to max out so they only lose 15 (even though half the difference is 220)

It may also be that the gains/losses are calculated on my actual max health (similar to DP and Moral boost).

Does anyone know for sure how it is calulated? Grenth's seems like such a cool idea and I would like to find a good use for it.

Ristaron · Apr 07, 2006, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Ever consider the fact that ANet doesn't like farmers and has adapted the skill to NOT work for you people?

Here's why it doesn't work:

GB:
"If target foe has more health than you, you gain half the difference (up to your maximum health), and that foe loses an equal amount."

If you're at maximum health, you don't gain anything. If you don't gain anything, they don't lose anything.

Basically, you're taking the wrong approach to this. What you need is to have a higher max health than your opponent for it to be particularly effective.
If you somehow manage to have max 1,000 health, and are down to 400, you can use the skill on someone who has full health (and most of the time they will have a little over 400 hp) and instantkill them (you cause them to LOSE 600 health, so they can't counter it except with Divine Intervention because it's not damage).

arredondo · Apr 07, 2006, 12:27 AM // 00:27

It works fine as it is. I won close to 40 matches starting in RA with ths elite (with three matches of us going 3v4).

It used to take 50% from the enemy regardless of the caster's health but Glint became offended at how easy he was to kill. As a result, it now takes a snap shot of your enemy's current health, then looks at YOUR current health, splits the difference in half and gives you that amount while removing the same from the enemy....up to your MAX HP that is, and it tosses away the left overs for both sides. Examples (Y="You", O= "Opponent"):

Y current/max HP= 400/500
O current/max HP= 500/500
GB gives you +50 and takes -50 from opponent

Y current/max HP= 100/500
O current/max HP= 400/500
GB gives you +150 and takes -150 from opponent

Y current/max HP= 1/500
O current/max HP= 500/500
GB gives you +250 and takes -250 from opponent

Y current/max HP= 55/55
O current/max HP= 500/500
GB gives you +0 and takes -0 from opponent

Y current/max HP= 1/55
O current/max HP= 500/500
GB gives you +54 and takes -54 from opponent

Y current/max HP= 1/1,000,000
O current/max HP= 500/500
GB gives you +250 and takes -250 from opponent

Y current/max HP= 100/1,000,000
O current/max HP= 20/500
GB gives you +10 and takes -10 from opponent

You can never take more HP from an enemy than your max HP. You can never take more than half of an enemy's health no matter how much your current or max HP is. The best scenario is that you have 1 HP and at least half MAX HP of your opponent or more. It doesn't matter how much more because you can never get more than half of what he currently has.

LouAl · Apr 07, 2006, 12:32 AM // 00:32

yeah I wasn't wanting it just for farming, but that is why I thought it didn't work. I just wasn't sure on the exact calculation of health lost/gained, if it came from my actual, current health or had to do with my max health without runes and what not...

Ristaron have you tried what you listed? because it would be my understanding that if you had 400 hlth (1000 max) and your target foe had 400 (400 max), then they would lose nothing and I would gain nothing because we had the same actual health.

Now if I had 100 health (1000 max) and my foe was an aatxe I would gain a considerable amount - I have seen that they have somewhere in the neighborhood of 1300 health...not sure if that is true but I'll use that number anyway - I would gain the difference (1200) divided by 2 (600) so I would then have 700 (1000mx) and the aatxe would have 700 (1300mx).

Or if I had 200 health (500mx) and fought something with 1000 -
I would gain half the difference (400) up to my max health so 300 puts me to 500 and my foe would lose 300, brings them to 700

EDIT: areedondo you sneaked that in while I was typing, but thanks for the info

Also changed 400 hlth (100 max) to 400 hlth (1000 max)

Evilsod · Apr 07, 2006, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Wouldn't this mean if you infused enough with Demonic Flesh and Vital Blessing on you could theoretically almost instagib most opponents in PvP?

Ristaron · Apr 07, 2006, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouAl

Ristaron have you tried what you listed? because it would be my understanding that if you had 400 hlth (100 max) and your target foe had 400 (400 max), then they would lose nothing and I would gain nothing because we had the same actual health.

(it was 1,000 max)

And, yes, sorry. The way you had explained what was confusing about it confused me when I was explaining it. Gave me slightly the wrong idea, but enough of an idea to explain that the reason he wasn't taking any damage was because you were at full health when you cast it.

arredondo · Apr 07, 2006, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Evilsod: Read my post and your question is answered.

Ristaron · Apr 07, 2006, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Wouldn't this mean if you infused enough with Demonic Flesh and Vital Blessing on you could theoretically almost instagib most opponents in PvP?

You got confused just like I did.

Mercury Angel · Apr 07, 2006, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by arredondo

Y current/max HP= 100/1,000,000
O current/max HP= 20/500
GB gives you +10 and takes -10 from opponent

Last time I used Grenth's Balance in that kind of situation, I LOST health. It was sometime after the addition of the practice targets, and I was trying to get an accurate health amount on them. (other than assuming they had 480 health)
*note, that's not to say it's the case now

Nero · Apr 07, 2006, 04:19 AM // 04:19

You lost health because the skill works both ways.

Meaning that if you use it when you have more health than the target it will 'balance' it as if the target used the skill on you.

arredondo · Apr 07, 2006, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Angel

Last time I used Grenth's Balance in that kind of situation, I LOST health. It was sometime after the addition of the practice targets, and I was trying to get an accurate health amount on them. (other than assuming they had 480 health)
*note, that's not to say it's the case now

You're right... I forgot about that since I never do it that way. You yourself are "balanced" if your health is above your enemy. Thanks.

LouAl · Apr 07, 2006, 08:10 PM // 20:10

You can lose health with GB?!?

It doesn't say that in the skill description...man it would really suck to lose health when you used it...although it would fit with the necromancer type skills.

I thought that if you had more health than the target you would gain/lose nothing and the target would gain/lose nothing, it would just do...nothing. I suppose if you say it is true I will have to go and test it tonight.

"Grenth's Balance (Elite)
Elite Spell. If target foe has more Health than you, you gain half the difference (up to your maximum Health), and that foe loses an equal amount."

(description taken from the Guild Wars website skill listings @ http://guildwars.com/gameplay/skills...oattribute.php )

Mercury Angel · Apr 07, 2006, 08:50 PM // 20:50

There's a quirk about Grenth's Balance and losing life to the enemy; It only happens if you're damaged.
That is, if you have 480/480 health, and the enemy has 1/480 health, nothing happens.
But if you have 479/480 health and you use Grenth's Balance on that foe again, you lose 239 health, which they gain.

There's an image depicting the latter.

LouAl · Apr 07, 2006, 10:03 PM // 22:03

hmmm, that is kinda intersting. It would be nice if they updated the skill description (and if it would do it all the time instead of only when you are damaged) or if they fixed it so you couldn't lose health.

Haggard · Apr 08, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ristaron

Basically, you're taking the wrong approach to this. What you need is to have a higher max health than your opponent for it to be particularly effective.
If you somehow manage to have max 1,000 health, and are down to 400, you can use the skill on someone who has full health (and most of the time they will have a little over 400 hp) and instantkill them (you cause them to LOSE 600 health, so they can't counter it except with Divine Intervention because it's not damage).

At first I thought BS!! but then when I thought about it, the maths, and read the description, it made sense. It's kind of like flipping over how you'd expect it to be used.

lambda the great · Apr 08, 2006, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Try this, get like 15/560 health, select a target at full health and see what happens. If that person has less health than you, yes you will take dmg from GB and heal the person.

Peewee · Apr 08, 2006, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouAl

I thought I had a cool idea the other day. I took out my 55 monk and slpped GB on him and then went out to fight some stuff.

My thought's were that since I would almost always have less health I would be doing huge damage to a single foe for only 10e every 10 seconds, but it doesn't work like that.

I am not sure how the calculations work for this spell, but it does not cause 250 damage to an enemy just because you have 55 max health.

It may be that it will max out your health and then take from them taht same amount - if I had 40 and they had 480 I could only gain 15 to max out so they only lose 15 (even though half the difference is 220)

It may also be that the gains/losses are calculated on my actual max health (similar to DP and Moral boost).

Does anyone know for sure how it is calulated? Grenth's seems like such a cool idea and I would like to find a good use for it.

ok, firstly you must actually read the skill description, as then u would have not posted this, or made the mistake in the first place. Secondly, a skill is not 'lame' simply becuase it wont work on your 55er.

It works on maximum health, after applying runes, before aplying weapon / focus modifications.

oh, and to reply to post above, the maths is wrong. If ur max health is 1000, and u drop to 400, then GB does 300, as it is half the difference.

arredondo · Apr 08, 2006, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Wrong. If you have 400/1,000 and the target has 480/480, cast GB and you will have 440/1,000 and he will have 440/480.

The system checks your CURRENT health first, compares it to the CURRENT health of the enemy, then it calculates the difference (80 in this case), and TRIES to give you and the enemy half of that amount. Maxhealth values only come into play when it tries to reward you with this bonus - either you have room for it or you don't, and the enemy will have his amount adjusted the exact same way as you do. I say 'tries' because if you have no more room for all of this extra HP due to your max HP., it will give you what you can handle and then takes ONLY that amount from the enemy - no more.

If you have 5/100 and the enemy has 900/1,000, it tries to take 450 HP from him but can't because you can only fit 95 max on your bar. In that case, 95 is the most that will be taken.

If you have 5/1,000 and the enemy has 400/500, you can fit all 400 on your health bar, but GB will NEVER take more than half of the current HP away from the opponent... here, the most you'll get is 200 for a "balance" of 205/1,000 for you and 200/500 for the enemy.

So in summary....

- GB tries to take up to half of the CURRENT health points from enemy as it compares his to your CURRENT health points
- If the difference between your two CURRENT health point amounts is less than his total current, it'll take less than half of his HP
- However it will never take away more from him than you can fit from your current health bar up to your max.
- If you have more current HP and the enemy has less, then you can give away up to half of what you currently have unless he can't fit this full amount on his own HP bar (due to hitting his max too soon).

Former Ruling · Apr 10, 2006, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Grenth's Balance is now fixed (it was a bug) so that it does not work backwards.

If you use it when they have less health - Nothing happens. You gain 0 and they lose 0.

Mercury Angel · Apr 10, 2006, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

Grenth's Balance is now fixed (it was a bug) so that it does not work backwards.

If you use it when they have less health - Nothing happens. You gain 0 and they lose 0.

Incorrect. I tested it myself right now. It works the same way I described it earlier.
You only lose health if you're damaged.

If you have 480/480 health, and you use Grenth's Balance on a foe with 1/480 health, it has no effect.
If you have 479/480 health, and you use Grenth's Balance on a foe with 1/480 health, you lose 239 health, and they gain 239 health.

Edit: Picture taken a few moments ago-

Edit: Actually, scratch that. I think I'm wrong on that aspect.

It seems to be more like;
If you have 420/480 health, and you use Grenth's Balance on a foe with 1/480 health, you lose 60 health, and they gain 60 health.

But it doesn't behave as I described it twice before. For that, I apologize x_x